Why the Blood? {Part One}

Here I am thinking out loud again. Not paying attention to what theology or orthodoxy says but only to what the word of God is saying to me personally through the knowledge of His son Jesus.

I was spending some more time on why the cross was needed to save us. To a non Christian it seems silly that God would in a sense need to kill himself to satisfy his own wrath. I came across this comment on a YouTube video...

"I'm not going to worship a god who had to sacrifice himself to himself in order to appease himself."

This is an honest concern. So I started doing a little research into the Levitical law about sacrifice and what the Jewish community thought. It was interesting that on almost every Jewish website or blog they seemed to have the same concern. But from a more biblical perspective. I think just about every site had disagreement the Jesus was the Messiah and that He is the only forgiveness of sins based on this verse.

"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Hebrews 9:22

I was happy to see that so many of our Jewish brothers were reading the New Testament and thinking about a book that really was addressed to them. But it also challenged me to look a little further into how to explain WHY we need the blood of Christ to be forgiven. Because we most certainly do. Now the problem that the Jewish community is that this verse in Hebrews does not gel with what their Torah says, namely the book of Leviticus. Leviticus is the book on sacrifice and the goings on of the Old Testament tabernacle. Here is the verse they use to nullify {in their minds that blood is needed for forgiveness}. From the book of Leviticus specifically talking about the "sin-offering".

"If, however, he cannot afford two doves or two young pigeons, he is to bring as an offering for his sin a tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering. He must not put oil or incense on it, because it is a sin offering." Lev 5:11

So according to the Old Testament law people could have remission of sin without blood sacrifice. To top that off there are several verses in the Old Testament that God himself says he does not want blood sacrifice.

What The Hell?

Some interesting thoughts on Hell...

"I willingly believe that the damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside." C S Lewis

"The torture of a bad conscience is the hell of a living soul." John Calvin

"How well I have learned that there is no fence to sit on between heaven and hell. There is a deep, wide gulf, a chasm, and in that chasm is no place for any man." Johnny Cash

"The vague and tenuous hope that God is too kind to punish the ungodly has become a deadly opiate for the consciences of millions." A. W. Tozer

"Some wish to live within the sound of a chapel bell; I wish to run a rescue mission within a yard of hell." C.T. Studd

"Heaven is full of forgiven people. Hell is full of forgiven people. Heaven is full of people God loves, whom Jesus died for. Hell is full of forgiven people God loves, whom Jesus died for. The difference is how we choose to live, which story we choose to live in, which version of reality we trust. Ours or God's." Rob Bell

"Denial of hell is one hell of a mistake." Mark Driscoll

"God’s justice and mercy unite in condemning the wicked to extinction. He justly punishes their sin and forbids them a place within the Kingdom. And he eventually mercifully annihilates them precisely so they will not endlessly endure what the traditional view says they endure." Gregory Boyd

"We can set no limits to the agency of the Redeemer to redeem, to rescue, to discipline in his work, and so will he continue to operate after this life." Clement of Alexandria

"Why were a few, or a single one, made at all, if only to exist in order to be made eternally miserable, which is infinitely worse than non-existence?" Immanuel Kant

"Hell is empty, And all the devils are here." William Shakespeare

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.' All that are in Hell chose it." C. S Lewis

Wrath of Man

This is a comment from a reader on facebook that I would like to share with you. Here was my post...

"It's interesting to me that the people that are so hell bent on preaching the wrath and vengeance of God do so out of a spirit of wrath and vengeance. Let's not forget..."For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God." James 1:20"

And here was his response...

"Insisting that when the NT says "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from GOD'S WRATH through him!" the authors of the NT meant it, isn't the equivalent of doing so "in a spirit of wrath and judgment." Paul wouldn't be enthused about people revising what he taught about Jesus' death; the one that was "cursed" by God for us (Gal. 3:10-14). Consider it a good thing to be corrected for teaching unbiblical concepts; you make it out to be a character flaw in the person correcting you.

The verse you quote in James isn't about condemning getting angry; it's about condemning getting angry at something without listening and doing so in arrogance, elitism, "filthiness" and "wickedness." James' book was VERY angry. Being angry is a good thing. It means you're awake.

When people taught a different message of the cross, Paul called them "dogs," "swine" and "fools" as well as telling them to "emasculate themselves" and "be accursed." Point being, strong rebuke is necessary in light of strong resolve to deviate from NT teaching. Denying that Jesus quenched the wrath of God or saved us from the wrath of God is unbiblical and in need of correction.

It may be worth reading the whole book of James in one sitting instead of misapplying 1:20 outside the context of James' sharp shooting of compromise in the church. The recipients of James' book got much more of an earful than you have I'm sure. He was a heavy hitter.

Cherie, your blogs are serious deviations from the NT teaching on wrath, God's nature and character and the cross."

Well...I have never claimed this blog to be orthodoxy or theology. In have never been to seminary or taken any formal theology. I have done a 6 month discipleship training, a 3 month biblical studies course and a 3 month worship, intercession and spiritual warfare course. That's it. That is why this is a personal blog of my thoughts and questions that I feel I am being humble and open in sharing with you. I have never claimed to have all the answers and don't believe a person has ever walked the earth that has. With exception to my personal Lord and Savior Jesus.

God's Wrath is Not For You {Part Two}

To read part one click here.

Here I am thinking out loud again. I want to begin this post with a few verses to keep in mind...

“Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand." Dan 12:10

"Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail."
Lam 3:22

"In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it— one from the tent of David— one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness." Is 16:5

“So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty."Mal 3:5

So my personal view is that Jesus was sent to die for the world out of God's frustration or wrath against the enemy, the Destroyer. He was sick of seeing his little ones perish and so He sent Jesus as sacrifice to cover us in His protective blood. Remember the blood of the passover was to protect from the Destroyer, not from the destruction of God. God is not a destroyer! The devil is the Destroyer. And so the blood of Jesus protects us from the destruction of the enemy. If we don't accept the blood we are handed to the enemy for destruction. God's judgment is righteous because we have chosen our own destruction. So the judgment from God is separation from His protection by our choice not His.

"By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them." Heb 11:28

"...nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer." 1Cor 10:10

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1Cor 5:5

Now lets look a little closer at the concept of wrath and judgment in the New Testament. The word judgment in the Greek is krisis meaning to separate, to approve. So again the cross and the blood are the point of separation. Those who choose the blood are protected, those that don't are "approved" of their choice and "separated" given to the destruction of the enemy. Then both are separated.

God's Wrath is Not For You

I was reading in the book of Jeremiah the other day when I found myself glancing to the opposite page. This is the verse that caught my eye...

"Therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says: “See, I will refine and test them, for what else can I do because of the sin of my people?" Jer. 9:7

One of the things I have been thinking about lately is the concept of sin, punishment and judgment. I talked a little about this a few days ago {click here}. What also seems to always play a role in that is the concept of the wrath of God. So these are some of my thoughts on the whole thing. I haven't totally worked it all through, so consider this post as me thinking out loud.

I have always been of the mind that sin is and of itself the punishment. That God is not the one punishing but instead is allowing the sin to punish on its own. Sin in the Hebrew mean "to wander from the way" the way being God's way. So when we sin we go our own way contrary to God's way and that just so happens to be the Devil's way. There in lies the punisher, the one who seeks to kill, steal and destroy. The other side effect from sin is separation from God. So the destruction and separation the sin causes is the punishment. But that destruction and separation isn't caused by God it is caused by the person teaming with the enemy.

"Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with Death, and with Sheol we are in agreement." Isaiah 28:15

I still don't understand how people get in their minds that our God is a God of destruction and death. That God seeks destruction or separation for any man. A God of war yes, a God of justice yes. But the war has always been and will always be against sin and the Devil, NOT THE PERSON! That is his justice and that was the cross!  He took the wrath of the enemy that was intended for us. He stood in for us so that we wouldn't have to be separated from God.  He was separated from God for us.  He took the death that was intended for us. But he conquered death! He took the control over death from the enemy so that all my have the choice of redemption and everlasting life. That we never have to be separated from God.  What I still am trying to figure out and have questions about is this...Did Jesus have to die to appease God's wrath for us or or was his wrath for the sin that separated us from him? Yes, God is totally indifferent to sin and hates it.  But Jesus who was God in the flesh had indifference to sin but never the sinner.  I guess that is why there is a few different views of atonement {penal substitution view, ransom view and Christus Victor}.  Still trying to work those out...lol.  Ok...getting off track...back to the Old Testament.